Talk:Gray Fox
Anti-Communist Group Where exactly is it said that Frank Jaeger fought alongside an anti-communist guerrilla group in the Mozambican War of Independence? Because in that war, the only side that was anti-communist was Portugal, and they weren't a guerrilla group by any means. The guerrilla group in that war was Liberation Front of Mozambique (FRELIMO). Now there was Mozambican National Resistance (RENAMO), which was an anti-communist rebel group, but they fought in the the Mozambican Civil War in 1975, so that can't be right either… –Nahald 06:22, 23 February 2009 (UTC) -Yes, it was FRELIMO who raised him as a child soldier. Big Boss clearly states he killed dozens of government soldiers so he had to have been fighting the portugese. However he states in MG2: Solid Snake that he also fought as a RENAMO soldier in 1975, where he was rescued by Big Boss from a FRELIMO prison camp. This would make alot of sense after MPO as it could be seen as him getting his own back on the group that raised him to be a killer. Seconding that: in fact, Portable Ops specifically says that Frank had killed 'dozens of government soldiers', a clear indication that he fought for FRELIMO against the Portuguese regime. Gray Fox was a commie, no mistake. Thene 22:50, 26 February 2009 (UTC) :According to everything we know about Fox, he fought both for and against FRELIMO at different points. I don't know if the creators put this much thought into it, but it stands to reason that he was forced to fight for FRELIMO as a child soldier during the Mozambican War of Independance (1964-1974) in 1966, then later joined RENAMO to fight against FRELIMO after the events of MPO (1970), during the Mozambican Civil War (1977-1992). Around this time, he would've also killed Naomi's parents in the neighboring country of Rhodesia, during the Rhodesian Bush War (1964-1979). It logically ties everything together without any need for retcons and is also historically accurate. FF-Suzaku 04:26, 19 March 2009 (UTC) Yes, I actually like the revelation that he originally fought with FRELIMO as a child soldier as it makes the fact he later fought with RENAMO more significant. It suggests that the reason he returned to Mozambique and joined RENAMO was so he could get his revenge on the group that turned him into a killer. Makes sense. Then it makes sense that after Mozambique he crossed the border to Rhodesia and started fighting for the Rhodesian Governement (as they were the ones who created RENAMO in the first place). This when he ends up adopting Naomi. However I noticed that the series tends to make some mistakes in regards to the dates. ie MGS1 says Fox encountered Naomi in Rhodesia during the guerilla fighting in the 80s, when the war actually ended in 1979. They do the same thing with Raiden and Solidus. Solidus claims he and Raiden fought in the Liberian civil war in the 80's when the war didnt even start till the end of 1989 and didnt really get into full swing until 1991. :On that note, can anyone provide a reference for Gray Fox rescuing Naomi DURING the Rhodesian Civil War? All MGS1 really says is that he found her in the 80s. There wasn't any mention of any war going on at the time, only that Fox was a soldier, and that he killed her parents. Otherwise, it seems to be too much of an assumption. --Bluerock 21:06, July 21, 2010 (UTC) ::Naomi does mention Big Boss and Fox returning to Africa to continue the war, but I think she meant Mozambique, seeing as this is where she met Big Boss and was taken to America from there. --Bluerock 21:15, July 21, 2010 (UTC) Nationality? After MPO is it still accurate to list Gray Fox's nationality as Vietnamese/German? It was originally stated that he was born in Vietnam to a german father and vietnamese mother and forced to work hard labour after the war, which is when he first met Big Boss. However this was entirely retconend in MPO (which made him older) so that they now met for the first time in the Mozambique Independence War. Frank Yaeger was also his real name originally(Yaeger coming from his father's side) where as in MPO we now know that it was more of a nickname given to him by FRELIMO. MPO just seems to make it seem like he was born in Mozambique, not Vietnam as was originally thought. Unless he was just brought to Mozambique when he was a child or something? :They probably brought him from Vietnam to Mozambique as part of the people working as a POW in war (It's not uncommon for POWs, those forced to do hard labor, to be forced to participate in combat. I mean, during the Normandy invasions, the Germans often had Czech POWs placed in the front trenches as soldiers, BOX soldiers as they called them, like what happened during the beginning scene in "Saving Private Ryan".) :EDIT: Also, The Vietnam War dates from 1959 to 1975. The Mozambican War of Independence was around from September 25, 1964 to June 25, 1975. Since Operation Snake Eater was completed on September 2nd, 1964, and the Mozambiquan Civil War started approximately 23 days later, and it's stated that he served in the Vietnam War, along with his serving in Vietnam for America the following year, it's possible that they had encountered each other there (not actually met, but still.). Plus, we know that Big Boss previously took a mission in 1960 in Vietnam very same mission that his war buddy and possibly best friend, Python, was apparantly killed., so he could have easily met Gray Fox there (It's implied that his parents were killed during the early stages of the Vietnam War). :As for his name Frank Jaegar, when was it actually stated that Frank Jaegar was actually his real name? I mean, Gray Fox's re-introduction to Snake during the events of Shadow Moses implied that he didn't have an actual name, and that the name Frank Jaegar wasn't actually his real name. :EDIT2: All right, the MSX script for MG2:SS says it's his real name, but it doesn't mention anything about Jaegar being his family name. In fact, even back then, Kaisler hinted at the origin for his name as being a nickname, as his codename during the Mercenary Wars (the Zanzibar war for independence) was The Hunter, and he mentioned that Jaegar was German for Hunter. Jaeger (oder better: Jäger) is quite a common name in Germany, but would be an unusual nickname... and Null is German for zero. I think his real name should be Jäger/Jaeger. Gortos 12:45, April 1, 2010 (UTC) Dexterity Is he left handed? Ive only seen him in mgs 1 and he uses his left hand in that but that could be due to his lack of a right one. Oni Link :Well every picture on his page has him holding his swords in his right hand, so I'm going with no! --Fantomas 09:24, September 20, 2009 (UTC) Franz Jaeger Well i thought i would just make a note that his name, Frank Jaeger, is very similar to the name of a fictional strongbox manufacturer called Franz Jaeger from a series of swedish comedy-movies named Jönssonligan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonssonligan. Hevehoc 15:22, October 20 2009 (CET) um.. okay? Real name: Frank Jaeger *looks at trivia* It should be noted Frank Jaeger is not his real name *is confused* I mean come on? just don't include 'real name' if anything have Known Alias' Zachariah Zuan 15:57, July 19, 2010 (UTC) :How are you defining real name? Birth name? He doesn't have one (or he at least doesn't know it). Better just to put it in aliases/"Also known as" instead. --Bluerock 18:23, July 19, 2010 (UTC) Gray Fox or Grey Fox? In Metal Gear Solid 4, I think Snake mentions Frank, but in the subtitles his alias is spelled, "Grey Fox," and not, "Gray Fox." I figured it was translated from Japanese to English, then when it's released in Europe it would be translated again, right? So, should we change it to the British spelling of grey? Zeronamous 09:42, December 1, 2010 (UTC) :I think that may have just been a simple error. Although originally spelled as "Grey Fox" in both the Japanese and English MSX2 games, it was changed to "Gray Fox" in later games. Since FOXHOUND was retconned to be an American unit, rather than a NATO unit, it makes more sense that his codename would be the American spelling. :Additionally, all American spellings and grammar remain in the UK releases. :--Bluerock 13:38, December 1, 2010 (UTC) Name origin It's likely that Frank Jaeger's name was taken from J.C. Pollock's Crossfire, in which the main operative is named Frank Kessler. Kojima obviously read the book at some point, as the book'' contains several other parallels to ''Metal Gear 2, aside from the general genre, such as a Czechoslovakian ice skater with a Marine ex-lover. 23:16, November 7, 2011 (UTC) :This is already noted in "Behind the scenes." Also, remember to sign your comments with four tildes (~). --Bluerock 12:48, November 6, 2011 (UTC) ::Oops. Must have been much ''longer since I last checked than I thought. Silly mistake, sorry about that. Thanks. 23:16, November 7, 2011 (UTC) Helmet in Revengeance Could someone who has the Gray Fox skin in MGR: Revengeance please take a clear zoomed in picture of the front of the helmet/mask? It needs to be directly in the front. Please, I really need it. CyborgROX (talk) 14:50, February 23, 2013 (UTC) "Frank Hunter" reprise in MGS4? In which scene exactly does the "Frank Hunter" track from ''Portable Ops supposedly play during MGS4 (as claimed in Bts)? --Bluerock (talk) 12:50, April 7, 2013 (UTC) I think it's in the "Snake... remember Frank?" scene in Act 2. 21:09, February 15, 2014 (UTC) GRAY FOX codename Though almost certainly a coincidence, I find the "Gray Fox" moniker interesting because "GRAY FOX" also happens to be one of the codenames used for the United States Army Intelligence Support Activity, otherwise known as ISA or "The Activity," a special operations unit that gathers actionable intelligence for special operations forces. (Basically, they're the ones that figure out where units like DEVGRU should be going, what will be there when they arrive, and who they should be looking to shoot once they get there.) Atypicaloracle (talk) 16:41, June 11, 2013 (UTC) Did he Died? Under the heading Rebirth, it says "After the defeat of Big Boss and the downfall of Zanzibar Land, Gray Fox's body, blown apart by a land mine,[20] was secretly recovered" Which pretty clearly implies that he was dead (and I don't think I can be the only one who thinks he did, because a fan-work I read says so in so many words). But I'm told by someone else pretty familiar with the series that he definitely didn't. I'm just curious what the answer is. Also if he didn't, that sentence should probably be reworded. 23:11, February 14, 2014 (UTC) : I think in MGSland, clinical death tends to last longer than the real world. Fox would have been found after his heart stopped and his EEG flatlined, but before his cells had degraded beyond the point of being able to be revived. Picture Fox as one of the ghost MSF members in Dead Man's Treasure. :P 20:17, February 21, 2014 (UTC) MGSV? Could Gray Fox and Naomi make a reappearance in Metal Gear Solid V? It would fit te time period and the wars going on, otherwise I have no evidence to say they would.UnitedPhysics (talk) 22:49, September 3, 2014 (UTC) :There are a few forums discussing possible returning characters in the series, so you should check those out. Talk pages are really intended for discussing changes to the article. --Bluerock (talk) 14:32, September 4, 2014 (UTC) :Thanks for the tip, I'll check them out.UnitedPhysics (talk) 16:51, September 4, 2014 (UTC) Age. I noticed brith "range" is directly tied to Portable Ops' dialogue from Campbell, which outside of a glancing reference(that could be taken possibly as a jab) in PW isn't really brought up in post-PO games. More over It's been said by Kojima himself that the specific details are to be considered non-canon as while the core of the story did happen there are things he didn't agree with becausehe wasn't apart of development on story. This comes through with that reference I talked about earlier where Miller (a character who had no part in that story) brings it up like he and Big Boss were working together on that mission.- 02:14, September 9, 2015 (UTC) Double death? In MG2 is left ambiguous if Fox died after the fight against Snake. However, in MGS Snake, Campbell and Naomi says that Fox did die, but has been revived by Clark's experiments and kept alive by his exoscheletor. Would that mean that Gray Fox actually died twice, first at Zanzibar Land (December 24, 1999) and then again at Shadow Moses (February 28, 2005)? And if so, should be pointed in the "Died" section of his template? --The 2nd travel of the Titanic (talk) 10:44, October 25, 2015 (UTC) : I'd say we perhaps should consider doing a similar thing to Solidus Snake where we note the brain death and clinical death. Though in Fox's case I suppose it'd be "Death 1" and "Death 2"? Paranoid Donkey (talk) 10:47, October 25, 2015 (UTC) ::I'm not sure whether Naomi literally meant Fox had deceased, but might as well have been due to the state he was left in. In MGS4, Big Mama says Fox was left "near death." --Bluerock (talk) 12:36, October 25, 2015 (UTC) ::So is not clear if was actually dead by 1999? In MGS both Snake and Campbell say he died in Zanzibar, but they could may have been wrong, I don't know. The 2nd travel of the Titanic (talk) 14:06, October 25, 2015 (UTC)